Skills unlocked by 2nd char not available to 1st ascended char? - Guild Wars Forums

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 16, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

I searched and came up with nothing also I am only talking about PvE.

Why aren't skills I unlock with my 2nd char available to my Ascended 1st char when he changes professions?

During the time of my first char i made another char. I then deleted that char after it got to lvl 8 or so, and then concentrated on getting my first char Ascended. Now I could have sworn that the skills I unlocked on that second char that i deleted were available to my first one.

If not and I happen to be delusional, why aren't they?

This is ridiculous, if I learn a skill on one char it should be available to all ascended char's on my account when they change professions AFTER ascension. Not me having to go around with my ascended char and get skills that i have gotten with another char on my account.

Does this make sense? Am I missing something?

If I am shortsighted in seeing how this would effect the overall picture of skills and PVE, please let me know. I find this frustrating, and if it was like I mentioned above it would certainly reduce the "grind".

YJ2k2 · Aug 16, 2005, 12:49 PM // 12:49

The skills/upgrades/runes you unlock only become availablet to a PvP Only Character if you create one...

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 16, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Is there any good reason why they aren't unlocked for my ascended char?

I'm assuming there has got to be a good reason, because I can't imagine them overlooking this and not thinking it would be a good idea.

I geuss maybe this thread could be moved to improvements then?

ZenPali · Aug 16, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Unlocking a skill means nothing to a PvE character. Unlocking a skill simply means that PvP characters on your account can equip it.

To use a skill with a PvE character you have to purchase (or capture) it. The two are not related.

Mr Zun · Aug 16, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I was thinking the same thing when i fisrt changed prof from W/M to W/M i figured id have all my mes skills availavle for my W since my very first char to finish the game and unlock all skills was a Mes yet still i had to go and buy and quest for the Mes skills witch beliveme was sooooooo painfull having to pay for a skill i got for free or having to quest for a skill i already unlocked but i guess is a way to keep things realistic since its like a brand new person/char your trainig, And unlike the PVP char u can go evrywhere with this char so u can go and get the skills.

Just my 2 cents.

Auntie I · Aug 16, 2005, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Unlocking ONLY refers to making things (skills, runes, weapon mods) available toPvP only characters.
I'll try and explain the logic here.
A PvE character is for playing the game. Each PvE character is independent of any other PvE character that you may have. The fact that you can change your secondary profession is really beside the point.
Let me ask you a question.... Pretend that your brother (if you have one) has learned how to play the piano. Would you expect to be able to play the piano just because he can? Using your logic you would. He's part of your family (account) so something he learned should be available to you for that reason.
Your logic fails at this point since what one person learns has nothing to do with what another learns. I like to think of the characters in my account as part of the same family. They can share resources, all belong to the same guild and are connected in a manner similar to how siblings are connected. They do not share everything!

I hope this helps clear things up for you.

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 16, 2005, 01:09 PM // 13:09

OK, thanks for clearing it up. I've gotten enough confirmation that it doesn't not make it available to my ascended char.

Again, I am only saying that the skills unlocked with any char are availalbe to all ascended chars on the account. As I think Mr Zun might have it mixed up.

I realize that the skills cannot be unlocked for all chars, or else you would have lvl 1's with elite skills. That would not fly.

Can anyone come up with a good reason why we can't? Would it be exploited?

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 16, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Auntie, ok, I understand your analogy. It is a good one.

But I think of my chars as tools, say a drill/driver (ascended char). I can use a phillips head bit, a slotted, or a square drive. If I was to go out and buy and new hex bit, I wouldn't want to have to buy the whole drill/driver again, would I?

My analogy isn't as effective as yours, but can you see what i mean.

I am just going to leave it at that, or else I will be sucked into sounding like a whiner, and I don't want to. ;-)

Auntie I · Aug 16, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

To use your analogy.
The Drill/driver is the game we're playing.
Think of your ascended character as the Hex bit that's magnetic. Its a little bit easier to use because your screws are stuck to it by it's magnetic properties. Just because you have a phillips bit won't mean it'll suddenly become magnetic too. The bit may become magnetic over time (Try hitting it with a hammer a few times to align the atoms) but it really is separate to the hex bit.

Wheeee! I like this analogy thing. It's loads of fun.

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 17, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Auntie, LOL.

I like analogies too. If you couldn't tell already. :-)

Guess I'll just suck it up and deal with it. I still think it is silly, that realistically a 9-5er will never get all the skills unlocked with one char, unless I skip out on my kids basball practice, skip mowing the lawn, maybe take a few sick days, and stop pre-rinsing our dishes. <sigh>

Auntie I · Aug 17, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Well I'm an 8 to 5er and I have most of the skills for my main character unlocked. I have about 6 elites that I haven't gotten yet, but I have all of the regular non elite skills that I want. There are about 10 or 12 that I don't have that I probably won't bother with. I think it's doable, it just takes time. I've been playing since the game was released and can see your point. When you can only play about 10 hours per week it does take a while to do everything. Look on the bright side...this game is going to last you a long long time. Feel pity for the kids with no school for the summer, they completed the game at least a month ago and are now bored to tears.

Mr Zun · Aug 17, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Yeh u may b a 9to5er but u probly dont have any kids, a nagging wife, a lawn to mow, and to top it of have to help with house work like dishes and stuff witch is one of the things that really sucks about being married and having kids OMG IT SUCKS NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY WHEN I REALLY WANT TO!!!

W8 did i type that? oops : )

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 17, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I'm reading back through the post, trying to get over the initial frustration.

And I just realized something, isn't the game really about skills, in a global aspect?
They even promote this in the ads.

This is just my opinion, but it seems that the "idea" of the game is this:

They have given us the ability to acquire, I like to use the word "collect" because, to me, basically the goal is to collect all the skills, like baseball cards or better yet Magic:TG cards, to make better builds for the game. For you to use.

So if we take out the char development part then we can't really look at it like a family, because it isn't the characters that are the focus but the skills, and gathering the skills.

I am probably sitting at the same point you are in the game. My original char is a R/Me, i have 4 more to unlock on my ranger and maybe 10 on the mesmer side. Now that I can pick what my secondary is at anytime, I often change secondaries on a daily basis depending on what I want to do during my session, need hides, switch to ele and go conjuring, need to goto the UW switch to monk for a good ressurect to round out my trapping build, wanna go play around in PvP, switch to mesmer and use my interupting build.

I am tossing ideas back and forth, I don't mean to keep a possible dead topic going. I just still haven't heard a solid reason for, why we can't do this.

What about this, to keep the analogies going, hehehe, say your brother is out in the forest with you, you see a plant with some nice looking fruit, your brother then eats the fruit and collapses, should you have to eat the fruit to learn what happened to your brother? OK, maybe this isn't a good one with no relevancy, it sounded like a good story to tell at the time.

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 17, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

LOL Mr Zun, you understand my pain!

Gwenhywar · Aug 17, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by stone cold monkey grip

Again, I am only saying that the skills unlocked with any char are availalbe to all ascended chars on the account. As I think Mr Zun might have it mixed up.

I'm sorry but it's you who has it all mixed up.

Unlocking WHATEVER (skills, runes, upgrades) only makes them available for a new "PvP only" character that you can create on your account. This is a type of character that starts at level 20, can only enter the PvP zones of the game, and can be equipped with whatever combos of weapons/runes/skills you have unlocked for your account.

Like people already posted before, each of your PvE characters have their own separate life. They DO NOT SHARE ANY SKILLS. They only share the same guild and storage box.

Gwenhywar · Aug 17, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by stone cold monkey grip

I am probably sitting at the same point you are in the game. My original char is a R/Me, i have 4 more to unlock on my ranger and maybe 10 on the mesmer side. Now that I can pick what my secondary is at anytime, I often change secondaries on a daily basis depending on what I want to do during my session, need hides, switch to ele and go conjuring, need to goto the UW switch to monk for a good ressurect to round out my trapping build, wanna go play around in PvP, switch to mesmer and use my interupting build.

When I want to play PvP I usually create a new PvP only character. That way I can pick whatever build I fancy trying out, and use any skills any of my PvE characters have unlocked. It also doesn't unnecessarily waste skill points for my PvE characters.

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 17, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

I'm sorry but it's you who has it all mixed up.

My reply was in response to what Mr Zun had said, and after going back and reading it again, I had misread what he stated.

I thought he said that he started a NEW PvE char and didn't have access to the skills he had learned with his previous PvE char. So I had made the mixed up comment because, if you start with a new PvE char and you have access to the skills you learned with a previous PvE char, that would seriously screw things up in the arena.

another thing, i think some people are getting caught up in the word "unlock", maybe "become available" would be better.

I am not an idiot and I know the people who have replied are not either, but I get the feeling that nobody really understands what I am talking about, maybe you all do, however I haven't really heard any pros or cons against it. Only wou can't do it, and explanations of how the current system works.

Except Gwen stating that it is a benefit to create a PvP only char so you don't have to rearrange skill points on the PvE char. That is an excellent point, and I hadn't thought of that.

I understand the current system, and how it works. I am just trying to get feedback on why it is not the way I would like to see it.

Also I guess I should add that I ascended my char in June, and have been thinking about this from then until now, which is probably why this has turned into a drawn out thread.

Aug 16, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47	#1
stone cold monkey grip Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005	Skills unlocked by 2nd char not available to 1st ascended char? I searched and came up with nothing also I am only talking about PvE. Why aren't skills I unlock with my 2nd char available to my Ascended 1st char when he changes professions? During the time of my first char i made another char. I then deleted that char after it got to lvl 8 or so, and then concentrated on getting my first char Ascended. Now I could have sworn that the skills I unlocked on that second char that i deleted were available to my first one. If not and I happen to be delusional, why aren't they? This is ridiculous, if I learn a skill on one char it should be available to all ascended char's on my account when they change professions AFTER ascension. Not me having to go around with my ascended char and get skills that i have gotten with another char on my account. Does this make sense? Am I missing something? If I am shortsighted in seeing how this would effect the overall picture of skills and PVE, please let me know. I find this frustrating, and if it was like I mentioned above it would certainly reduce the "grind".

Aug 16, 2005, 12:49 PM // 12:49	#2
YJ2k2 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: The Calling of [Time] Profession: A/Me	The skills/upgrades/runes you unlock only become availablet to a PvP Only Character if you create one...

Aug 16, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53	#3
stone cold monkey grip Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005	Is there any good reason why they aren't unlocked for my ascended char? I'm assuming there has got to be a good reason, because I can't imagine them overlooking this and not thinking it would be a good idea. I geuss maybe this thread could be moved to improvements then?

Aug 16, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54	#4
ZenPali Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Jersey Profession: N/Mo	Unlocking a skill means nothing to a PvE character. Unlocking a skill simply means that PvP characters on your account can equip it. To use a skill with a PvE character you have to purchase (or capture) it. The two are not related.

Aug 16, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57	#5
Mr Zun Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Twin Dragons Profession: E/N	I was thinking the same thing when i fisrt changed prof from W/M to W/M i figured id have all my mes skills availavle for my W since my very first char to finish the game and unlock all skills was a Mes yet still i had to go and buy and quest for the Mes skills witch beliveme was sooooooo painfull having to pay for a skill i got for free or having to quest for a skill i already unlocked but i guess is a way to keep things realistic since its like a brand new person/char your trainig, And unlike the PVP char u can go evrywhere with this char so u can go and get the skills. Just my 2 cents.

Aug 16, 2005, 01:04 PM // 13:04	#6
Auntie I Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Veritas Invictus Profession: E/Me	Unlocking ONLY refers to making things (skills, runes, weapon mods) available toPvP only characters. I'll try and explain the logic here. A PvE character is for playing the game. Each PvE character is independent of any other PvE character that you may have. The fact that you can change your secondary profession is really beside the point. Let me ask you a question.... Pretend that your brother (if you have one) has learned how to play the piano. Would you expect to be able to play the piano just because he can? Using your logic you would. He's part of your family (account) so something he learned should be available to you for that reason. Your logic fails at this point since what one person learns has nothing to do with what another learns. I like to think of the characters in my account as part of the same family. They can share resources, all belong to the same guild and are connected in a manner similar to how siblings are connected. They do not share everything! I hope this helps clear things up for you.

Aug 16, 2005, 01:09 PM // 13:09	#7
stone cold monkey grip Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005	OK, thanks for clearing it up. I've gotten enough confirmation that it doesn't not make it available to my ascended char. Again, I am only saying that the skills unlocked with any char are availalbe to all ascended chars on the account. As I think Mr Zun might have it mixed up. I realize that the skills cannot be unlocked for all chars, or else you would have lvl 1's with elite skills. That would not fly. Can anyone come up with a good reason why we can't? Would it be exploited?

Aug 16, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17	#8
stone cold monkey grip Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005	Auntie, ok, I understand your analogy. It is a good one. But I think of my chars as tools, say a drill/driver (ascended char). I can use a phillips head bit, a slotted, or a square drive. If I was to go out and buy and new hex bit, I wouldn't want to have to buy the whole drill/driver again, would I? My analogy isn't as effective as yours, but can you see what i mean. I am just going to leave it at that, or else I will be sucked into sounding like a whiner, and I don't want to. ;-)

Aug 16, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46	#9
Auntie I Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Veritas Invictus Profession: E/Me	To use your analogy. The Drill/driver is the game we're playing. Think of your ascended character as the Hex bit that's magnetic. Its a little bit easier to use because your screws are stuck to it by it's magnetic properties. Just because you have a phillips bit won't mean it'll suddenly become magnetic too. The bit may become magnetic over time (Try hitting it with a hammer a few times to align the atoms) but it really is separate to the hex bit. Wheeee! I like this analogy thing. It's loads of fun.

Aug 17, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48	#10
stone cold monkey grip Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005	Auntie, LOL. I like analogies too. If you couldn't tell already. :-) Guess I'll just suck it up and deal with it. I still think it is silly, that realistically a 9-5er will never get all the skills unlocked with one char, unless I skip out on my kids basball practice, skip mowing the lawn, maybe take a few sick days, and stop pre-rinsing our dishes. <sigh>

Aug 17, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55	#11
Auntie I Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Veritas Invictus Profession: E/Me	Well I'm an 8 to 5er and I have most of the skills for my main character unlocked. I have about 6 elites that I haven't gotten yet, but I have all of the regular non elite skills that I want. There are about 10 or 12 that I don't have that I probably won't bother with. I think it's doable, it just takes time. I've been playing since the game was released and can see your point. When you can only play about 10 hours per week it does take a while to do everything. Look on the bright side...this game is going to last you a long long time. Feel pity for the kids with no school for the summer, they completed the game at least a month ago and are now bored to tears.

Aug 17, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07	#12
Mr Zun Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Twin Dragons Profession: E/N	Yeh u may b a 9to5er but u probly dont have any kids, a nagging wife, a lawn to mow, and to top it of have to help with house work like dishes and stuff witch is one of the things that really sucks about being married and having kids OMG IT SUCKS NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY WHEN I REALLY WANT TO!!! W8 did i type that? oops : )

Aug 17, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41	#13
stone cold monkey grip Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005	I'm reading back through the post, trying to get over the initial frustration. And I just realized something, isn't the game really about skills, in a global aspect? They even promote this in the ads. This is just my opinion, but it seems that the "idea" of the game is this: They have given us the ability to acquire, I like to use the word "collect" because, to me, basically the goal is to collect all the skills, like baseball cards or better yet Magic:TG cards, to make better builds for the game. For you to use. So if we take out the char development part then we can't really look at it like a family, because it isn't the characters that are the focus but the skills, and gathering the skills. I am probably sitting at the same point you are in the game. My original char is a R/Me, i have 4 more to unlock on my ranger and maybe 10 on the mesmer side. Now that I can pick what my secondary is at anytime, I often change secondaries on a daily basis depending on what I want to do during my session, need hides, switch to ele and go conjuring, need to goto the UW switch to monk for a good ressurect to round out my trapping build, wanna go play around in PvP, switch to mesmer and use my interupting build. I am tossing ideas back and forth, I don't mean to keep a possible dead topic going. I just still haven't heard a solid reason for, why we can't do this. What about this, to keep the analogies going, hehehe, say your brother is out in the forest with you, you see a plant with some nice looking fruit, your brother then eats the fruit and collapses, should you have to eat the fruit to learn what happened to your brother? OK, maybe this isn't a good one with no relevancy, it sounded like a good story to tell at the time.

Aug 17, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50	#14
stone cold monkey grip Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005	LOL Mr Zun, you understand my pain!